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| New Prince of Detroit? |
Tue, 24 January 2012 12:20  |
 Marty Otto
Messages: 7657
Registered: April 2006 |
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Just saw this tweet pop up:
RT @YahooSports Detroit and Prince Fielder have agreed in principle on a nine-year, $214 million deal, sources tell Y! Sports' Tim Brown
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| Re: New Prince of Detroit? |
Tue, 24 January 2012 15:49  |
ER_Sports
Messages: 2997
Registered: July 2005 |
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Pretty surprised at this move, wondering how they'll play with Cabrera and Fielder on defense or just go the DH route. Can't imagine we'd see a lot of Cabrera at third and Prince. Was thinking that Prince would be a great move for the Nationals, but that contract to Werth will continue to kill them...
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| Re: New Prince of Detroit? |
Tue, 24 January 2012 20:01 |
Gimbeaux
Messages: 2294
Registered: October 2005 |
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Do the pizzas go up to $6?
Nice move by Boras, after all. Nobody expected the Martinez injury this late, but holding out and creating a semblance of a market for Fielder worked out well. The Tigers were supposedly kicking the tires on guys like Abreu, or maybe looking at grizzled vets like Guerrero or even Damon to DH. It's probably going to be a rotation of Cabrera and Fielder at 1B and DH, as I can't see Cabrera at 3B for any long stretch of time.
I think the Tigers line up very well in the American League, though I'd like to see them add a mid-tier starter for the middle of the rotation. Oswalt might of been in the picture, but he turned the Tigers down earlier. He would have been a nice fit, as would have been Kuroda. I doubt the Tigers go the Edwin Jackson route again, even if he takes a one-year deal. I just think another reliable pitcher should be in the cards, unless the team feels that Scherzer can be more consistent in behind Verlander.
I thought the Dodgers would have been the prime spot for Fielder, but that wasn't going to happen for obvious reasons. I also liked the Nationals as a landing spot, as the pieces there are starting to come together to make a small run at the Phillies in the next couple of years. The Nationals are a team that has struggled to sell tickets in that market, and now is the time to strike in the NL East with the Mets having financial issues and the Phillies perhaps showing some age in the everyday lineup. The Werth contract doesn't help, nor will a potential extension with Zimmerman to worry about. A lot will hinge on Strasburg and Zimmermann (the pitcher with two n's), but the pitching looks deeper, and we know that Harper and some of the quality recent draft picks are on the way in the field. Fielder would have given them a nice thumper to build around, but you have to worry about his body if you're an NL team giving him a long-range deal. That's what scared a lot of people, I'm sure.
[Updated on: Tue, 24 January 2012 20:02]
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| Re: New Prince of Detroit? |
Wed, 25 January 2012 15:39 |
ER_Sports
Messages: 2997
Registered: July 2005 |
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[quote title=Martin wrote on Wed, 25 January 2012 11:33]
Don't forget about Jhonny Peralta at short-stop... The Tigers for years have been able to field a pretty good infield defense. It's declined a bit recently, however this is setting up as the worst range of infielders on record. It won't bother Verlander as much, but if you're not missing bats, the Tigers going OVER the total.
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| Re: New Prince of Detroit? |
Sun, 17 June 2012 08:34 |
ER_Sports
Messages: 2997
Registered: July 2005 |
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Tigers 4 games out of first place, but a disappointing 31-34. The offense has disappointed at times, Valverde of course can't come close to duplicating last season. And of course, the defense one of the worst in MLB with high BABIP a common theme...
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| Re: New Prince of Detroit? |
Sun, 17 June 2012 13:48 |
Iceman
Messages: 520
Registered: March 2011 |
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Actually was thinking about this exact same thread just the other day (probably about the tenth time this season) after watching another defensive demise by the Tigers. Now that someone bumped this thread I am going to get this rant out that I have been holding inside for this whole season, LOL.
I have watched Tigers baseball most of my life and I have walked away from the game at least 5-10 times this year cursing about just how poor they are defensively.
I think the weird thing is I think it's more one of those things where you really don't notice it unless you actually see it. A lot of the things happening hasn't been errors but instead guys just not making tough plays, turning double plays, litte things, etc... Basically giving a team an extra out an inning a couple times a game it seems. Like I said I am not sure that looking at a box score and you can see this but believe me it's there. On the other end of things, I can seriously count on one hand the great plays that I have seen on defense so far from them this season (not including Jackson who is solid in CF).
The odd thing is I have spoke to and read lots of Detroit Tigers forums and it's shocking just how many fans think Cabrera has played well at 3rd. In fact the majority say this and it's simply not close to true. I think it all boils down to the whole expectation thing with him. Because most expected him to be a complete failure, anything that he does almost amazes the fans and the awful hometown announcers. I love Cabrera as a hitter (how coudn't you) and he wasn't that bad over at 1st base. He does have a very strong arm but he can't move either way, fields the bunt poorly, etc... If you don't beleive me than look at his UZR/150 rating, it's one of the worst from a 3rd baseman in MLB in years. The guy just one spot ahead of him is David Freese who is ranked 16th amongst the 17 qualifying 3rd baseman. Freese is actually closer to being ranked 5th overall than Cabrera is from moving up one spot from 17th to 16th overall. That's how much worse he is than the others playing 3rd on a regular basis.
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| Re: New Prince of Detroit? |
Sun, 17 June 2012 14:09 |
Iceman
Messages: 520
Registered: March 2011 |
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I think it's the main reason that they have struggled this season so far and esepcially of late. Any kind of decent play out of their defense and this team would be above .500 right now, IMO. Their hitting has actually started to come around and their bullpen has tightened up quite a bit of late also.
I just can't believe that Dombrowski and Leyland can put up with this much longer. I know it's frustrating me as a fan, can't imagine how upset they must be feeling at times this year. Like ER said, through it all they are somehow still within striking distance of first place.
The most frustrating part to me is this problem could be easily corrected by them making one move and grabbing a decent defensive shortstop on a trade (which I am sure is easier said than done). If they did that they could move Peralta over to 3rd, Cabrera back to 1st and most importantly get Fielder off of the field (don't even get me started with Prince, by far he is the worst of all the Tigers at his position defensively). Or they could just go and get a guy to play 3rd, keep Peralta at SS (which I am not thrilled with) and move Cabrera back to first and that would help them out tremendously on defense.
With that said I am almost certain that they won't do anything like this during this season, as it's just way too drastic of a move for the Tigers and their players coach Jim Leyland. It's way too daring probably for any team to move around most of their infielders in the middle of the year but if they did there is no doubt in my mind they would grab control of their division.
Like I mentioned earlier, most folks including the media don't think that Cabrera has been that bad at 3rd defensively and moving him back to 1st might look to most that the management is "blaming" those two guys for the team's first half failures.
I think a move like that would rock the boat and the Tigers probably don't want to do something like that to their two franchise players and risk losing them attitude wise also.
They probably figure that they can catch the teams ahead of them with their strong starting staff (with FIster back) and top of the linuep hitters, as their offense really clicks with Austin Jackson out there as he is turning into a superstar.
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| Re: New Prince of Detroit? |
Thu, 20 September 2012 16:34 |
ER_Sports
Messages: 2997
Registered: July 2005 |
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Nice little feature here from someone that knows a thing or two about baseball defense...
http://www.actasports.com/stats_detail/?StatId=341
The White Sox, Tigers and Defense
September 20, 2012
The White Sox hold a two-game lead over the Tigers today in the race for the AL Central Division title. One of the key reasons the Sox are on top is defense. Not because theirs is so good, but because the Tigers’ is so bad. Detroit has the worst defense in the American League. Compared to the average team, they have lost 39 runs on defense. The White Sox’s defense has saved five runs, which makes them an average defense.
That's a difference of 44 runs, a difference of four games in the standings.
When the Tigers signed Prince Fielder to team up with Miguel Cabrera, the plan was to supercharge their offense. While both players are having excellent seasons, it hasn't worked as well as planned. In 2011, the Tigers scored 4.9 runs per game. This year, they are down to 4.5 runs. Defensively, both Fielder and Cabrera are hurting the team. Ten of the 39 runs lost on defense are from those two, five apiece at their respective positions.
I am somewhat surprised that Cabrera hasn’t been worse at third base. In playing third base with Florida in 2006 and 2007, he lost 29 runs defensively. He was moved to first base with good reason. Returning to third base this year, we projected him to lose about 15 runs for the Tigers this year, and he’s only lost 5 so far. Here are the defensive performances of some of the other players on contenders that have changed positions this year:
Notable Players with New Positions
Player 2011 Pos Runs Saved 2012 Pos Runs Saved Change
Mark Reynolds, BAL 3B -22 1B -3 19
Alex Rios, CWS CF -9 RF 6 15
Hanley Ramirez, LAD SS -13 3B -11 2
Miguel Cabrera, DET 1B -3 3B -5 -2
Brennan Boesch, DET LF 5 RF -8 -13
Atop the list is a player that has never been synonymous with good defense, Mark Reynolds. This season, Reynolds has moved from third base to first and held his own. His defensive improvement has been a major part of the Orioles’ late-season success and helped him consistently remain in the lineup.
Next to Cabrera, Hanley Ramirez was the biggest name to move to a new position this season. His move has not fared as well. Ramirez has cost the Marlins and Dodgers an estimated 11 runs at third base after costing them 13 runs at shortstop last year. Unlike Cabrera, Ramirez moved to third from a more-demanding position. His teams likely hoped for a bigger improvement.
In the outfield, Alex Rios and Brennan Boesch have become primarily right fielders this season. They are responsible for 14 runs of the 44-run disparity between the White Sox and Tigers, more even than Cabrera and Fielder. That is a flip of last year, when Boesch was 14 runs better in left field than Rios was in center.
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| Re: New Prince of Detroit? |
Thu, 20 September 2012 17:52 |
happyjack
Messages: 3959
Registered: November 2008 |
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| ER_Sports wrote on Thu, 20 September 2012 16:34 |
Nice little feature here from someone that knows a thing or two about baseball defense...
http://www.actasports.com/stats_detail/?StatId=341
The White Sox, Tigers and Defense
September 20, 2012
The White Sox hold a two-game lead over the Tigers today in the race for the AL Central Division title. One of the key reasons the Sox are on top is defense. Not because theirs is so good, but because the Tigers’ is so bad. Detroit has the worst defense in the American League. Compared to the average team, they have lost 39 runs on defense. The White Sox’s defense has saved five runs, which makes them an average defense.
That's a difference of 44 runs, a difference of four games in the standings.
When the Tigers signed Prince Fielder to team up with Miguel Cabrera, the plan was to supercharge their offense. While both players are having excellent seasons, it hasn't worked as well as planned. In 2011, the Tigers scored 4.9 runs per game. This year, they are down to 4.5 runs. Defensively, both Fielder and Cabrera are hurting the team. Ten of the 39 runs lost on defense are from those two, five apiece at their respective positions.
I am somewhat surprised that Cabrera hasn’t been worse at third base. In playing third base with Florida in 2006 and 2007, he lost 29 runs defensively. He was moved to first base with good reason. Returning to third base this year, we projected him to lose about 15 runs for the Tigers this year, and he’s only lost 5 so far. Here are the defensive performances of some of the other players on contenders that have changed positions this year:
Notable Players with New Positions
Player 2011 Pos Runs Saved 2012 Pos Runs Saved Change
Mark Reynolds, BAL 3B -22 1B -3 19
Alex Rios, CWS CF -9 RF 6 15
Hanley Ramirez, LAD SS -13 3B -11 2
Miguel Cabrera, DET 1B -3 3B -5 -2
Brennan Boesch, DET LF 5 RF -8 -13
Atop the list is a player that has never been synonymous with good defense, Mark Reynolds. This season, Reynolds has moved from third base to first and held his own. His defensive improvement has been a major part of the Orioles’ late-season success and helped him consistently remain in the lineup.
Next to Cabrera, Hanley Ramirez was the biggest name to move to a new position this season. His move has not fared as well. Ramirez has cost the Marlins and Dodgers an estimated 11 runs at third base after costing them 13 runs at shortstop last year. Unlike Cabrera, Ramirez moved to third from a more-demanding position. His teams likely hoped for a bigger improvement.
In the outfield, Alex Rios and Brennan Boesch have become primarily right fielders this season. They are responsible for 14 runs of the 44-run disparity between the White Sox and Tigers, more even than Cabrera and Fielder. That is a flip of last year, when Boesch was 14 runs better in left field than Rios was in center.
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that being said would you give the MVP to Cabrera then since his defense wasn't that bad?
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| Re: New Prince of Detroit? |
Fri, 21 September 2012 08:16 |
wazvito
Messages: 138
Registered: August 2011 |
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My guess is that Cabrera ends up with the MVP this season, even if he just misses the Triple Crown. If he gets the Triple Crown, he's definitely a lock.
Kind of a travesty IMO, as Trout has a WAR that is 70% higher than Cabera's. Voters rarely factor in defense and baserunning, two areas where Trout excels and Cabrera is extremely deficient. Trout is worth 10.1 wins at the moment (1st in MLB), while Cabrera is at 6.4 (8th in MLB).
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His D was average when he was younger and skinnier....I just don't see it happening. I would expect them to move Vmart in the off season.
